1:15 p.m.
The NetSurf developers plan to release NetSurf 2.5 at the
Wakefield RISC OS Show this year.
http://www.wakefieldshow.org.uk/
The release is expected to have many bug fixes over the current
release version (NetSurf 2.1), in addition to major new
features, such as:
+ Rewritten and more capable CSS engine
+ Rewritten and more flexible cache design
+ Better memory usage
We also hope for speed improvements in parsing of HTML and CSS,
as well as faster CSS selection.
NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS. It is
unlikely that RISC OS development builds will function for much
longer after this, either. Once NetSurf 2.5 has been released
we will be incorporating new developments, which are currently
being held back, into NetSurf's core web browser engine. These
will not be compatible with the existing stagnant RISC OS front
end code.
The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be
available in the normal place, however it won't compile without
the necessary attention to bring it into line with NetSurf's
core.
The NetSurf Developers
--
Michael Drake (tlsa) http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
1:31 a.m.
In message <50d979b0e4tlsa(a)netsurf-browser.org>
Michael Drake <tlsa(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
The NetSurf developers plan to release NetSurf 2.5 at the
Wakefield RISC OS Show this year.
Excellent, something to look forward to!
We also hope for speed improvements in parsing of HTML and CSS,
as well as faster CSS selection.
That will be much appreciated. I've had to go back to 2.1 for general
usage because the test builds had become too slow. The ROOL forums are
particularly bad..
NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS.
:-(
I take it none of those who were looking at taking on the RISC OS
frontend were able to commit the necessary time to it?
The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be
available in the normal place
So there's still hope!
The NetSurf Developers
Thanks to you all for your work producing an excellent browser.
Bryan.
1:34 a.m.
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:31:15 GMT
Bryan Hogan <netsurf(a)helpful.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> NetSurf 2.5 is likely to be the last release for RISC OS.
:-(
I take it none of those who were looking at taking on the RISC OS
frontend were able to commit the necessary time to it?
Indeed. There is a shortage of people who have the expertise, time
and the will. People with one or two of these attributes but not all
are plentiful.
> The source code for the RISC OS front end will continue to be
> available in the normal place
So there's still hope!
Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll
refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be
required.
B.
1:57 p.m.
In message <20100115003457.0d6d2b8f(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll
refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be
required.
How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
Democray for England http://www.thecep.org.uk/
2:16 p.m.
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:57:37 GMT
Kevin Wells <kevinwells(a)talktalk.net> wrote:
In message
<20100115003457.0d6d2b8f(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
>Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll
>refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will
>be required.
How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP
from C before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips
with NetSurf's sources.
B.
5:47 p.m.
In message <20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Jan 2010 12:57:37 GMT
Kevin Wells <kevinwells(a)talktalk.net> wrote:
> In message
<20100115003457.0d6d2b8f(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
> Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
>>
>>Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't mean we'll
>>refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will
>>be required.
>
> How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP
from C before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips
with NetSurf's sources.
B.
Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid.
Michael Bell
--
11:39 a.m.
On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message
<9d6e16da50.michaelbell(a)michael.beaverbell.co.uk>:
In message
<20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
> Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C
> before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with
> NetSurf's sources.
Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid.
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of
the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform over
the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at
NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and
a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were
met with total silence.
1. For the avoidance of any possible doubt, these tasks were *not* Archive's
PD Column or the editing of the Wakefield Club newsletter.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
12:24 p.m.
In message <mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message
<9d6e16da50.michaelbell(a)michael.beaverbell.co.uk>:
> In message
<20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
> Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C
>> before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with
>> NetSurf's sources.
>
> Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid.
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take
on some of
the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform
over
the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at
NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and
a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were
met with total silence.
Steve
I would love to help, but I am up to my ears in my own projects.
Michael Bell
--
12:24 p.m.
In message <mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message
<9d6e16da50.michaelbell(a)michael.beaverbell.co.uk>:
> In message <20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
> Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C
> > before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with
> > NetSurf's sources.
>
> Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid.
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take on some of
the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform over
the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at
NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and
a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were
met with total silence.
1. For the avoidance of any possible doubt, these tasks were *not* Archive's
PD Column or the editing of the Wakefield Club newsletter.
What task are they? Perhaps some on this group are capable and willing
to take them on.
--
Kev Wells http://riscos.kevsoft.co.uk/
http://kevsoft.co.uk/ http://kevsoft.co.uk/AleQuest/
ICQ 238580561
IF your nose runs and your feet smell it means your upside down.
2:05 p.m.
On 16 Jan 2010 Steve Fryatt <lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message
<9d6e16da50.michaelbell(a)michael.beaverbell.co.uk>:
> In message
<20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
> Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps 5 to 10 years of experience to learn C and using the WIMP from C
>> before you start, along with perhaps a month to get to grips with
>> NetSurf's sources.
>
> Far beyond most of us, I'm afraid.
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take
on some of
the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform
over
the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at
NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation Pro and
a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for help were
met with total silence.
I might be able to help with at least some of this. Please let me know
off-list (address is valid) what sort of things need doing.
With best wishes,
Peter.
--
Peter, \ / \ Prestbury, Cheltenham, Glos. GL52
Anne \ / __ __ \ England.
and / / \ | | |\ | / _ \ http://pnyoung.orpheusweb.co.uk
family / \__/ \_/ | \| \__/ \______________ pnyoung(a)ormail.co.uk.
10:05 p.m.
In message <mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk>
Steve Fryatt <lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take
on some of
the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform
over
the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking at
NetSurf.
Golly, I'll take on that job! Didn't realise there was a total lack of
interest.
If there's anything that's beyond me I'll just have to call out for
help ;-)
--
James K White
11:43 p.m.
In article <mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk>,
Steve Fryatt <lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk> wrote:
On 15 Jan, Michael Bell wrote in message
<9d6e16da50.michaelbell(a)michael.beaverbell.co.uk>:
> In message
<20100115131610.5b82a656(a)trite.i.flarn.net.i.flarn.net>
> Rob Kendrick <rjek(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
>
[Snip]
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take
on
some of the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the
platform over the last six months, to free up the time that I required
for looking at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a
copy of Ovation Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even
these requests for help were met with total silence.
1. For the avoidance of any possible doubt, these tasks were *not*
Archive's PD Column or the editing of the Wakefield Club newsletter.
I have Ovation Pro, have a reasonable grasp of the English language and
would be willing to help if it enables an ongoing RISC OS presence at
Netsurf.
I see that you have two other volunteers here; Peter, James and I
probably a constitute a "group of RISC OS users" so let us know what is
needed.
Brian
--
_____________________________________________________________________
Brian Jordan
Virtual RPC-AdjustSA
RISC OS 6.16
_____________________________________________________________________
1:32 p.m.
On 16 Jan, Steve Fryatt wrote in message
<mpro.kwc5mh00p5zqo0385.lists(a)stevefryatt.org.uk>:
That may be true, but I've asked groups of RISC OS users to take
on some
of the more "paper shuffling" tasks that I've been doing for the platform
over the last six months, to free up the time that I required for looking
at NetSurf. They were things that could be done with a copy of Ovation
Pro and a grasp of the English langauge[1], but even these requests for
help were met with total silence.
Thanks for all the offers; I'll get back to people as and when I have time
(there are more pressing things I need to do this weekend).
However, I need to point out that above was a retrospective observation.
RISC OS isn't the only thing I do in my spare time (as Archive readers
probably know), and while other demands on my time were low in November and
December, that isn't the case now we're into the start of 2010.
--
Steve Fryatt - Leeds, England
http://www.stevefryatt.org.uk/
2:16 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 12:57:37PM +0000, Kevin Wells wrote:
>Absolutely. Just because we're dropping it now doesn't
mean we'll
>refuse it later. Although the longer it is left, the more work will be
>required.
How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
That entirely depends on the person.
When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become reasonably
competent. However I know people who picked it up in days and people who took
months. Simply knowing C is insufficient however; since then you need to
understand a non-trivial codebase (NetSurf) and all the libraries it uses
(libcss, hubbub, curl, openssl etc) to a sufficient level that you will be able
to trace and debug issues and implement new features.
Learning the codebase enough to be able to hack on NetSurf took me a few days
to begin with; but months to be really productive.
I don't expect a non-committed programmer to be able to take over the RO
frontend effectively. By 'committed' I mean someone who 1. writes code as part
of their job (in whatever language) and 2. writes code for their own
edification. A casual coder is unlikely to have the kind of mind which can
cope with the job.
I'm not trying to put people off; just to make it clear that it's not the sort
of job for someone who was a casual BASIC programmer and has now read a C book.
Regards,
Daniel
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
2:19 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 01:16:47PM +0000, Daniel Silverstone wrote:
> How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
That entirely depends on the person.
When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become
reasonably
competent.
To put this in context; when I learned C (aged 20) I had already been writing
software for fifteen years.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
5:29 p.m.
Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 01:16:47PM +0000, Daniel Silverstone wrote:
> > How much work is involved for some one who knows no C at all.
> That entirely depends on the person.
> When I learned C, it took me about a week of evenings to become
> reasonably competent.
To put this in context; when I learned C (aged 20) I had already been
writing software for fifteen years.
Maybe the missing ingredient in the RISC OS community is youth. There is no
getting away from the fact that it is easier to learn when young, (and then
remember it!). I was in the second half of my thirties when I got my first
computer, a BBC Model B, and it took a lot more than a week to become
competent in BASIC. And that was as far as I ever got, I like nearly
everyone else, did not make the jump to C even when I moved on to the A3000
and later.
I had a bit of a google to try to get some background to a Netsurf
developer's skill set and came across this use of Netsurf :-
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-A-...
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-An...
--
David Pitt
MessengerPro on iMac, Snow Leopard
5:46 p.m.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 04:29:28PM +0000, David Pitt wrote:
Maybe the missing ingredient in the RISC OS community is youth.
It's exceedingly hard to persuade youth to latch onto a community which
currently lacks it.
I had a bit of a google to try to get some background to a Netsurf
developer's skill set and came across this use of Netsurf :-
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-A-...
http://www.linuxfordevices.com/c/a/Linux-For-Devices-Articles/Tutorial-An...
That series was written by myself and my colleague and fellow NetSurf
developer, Vincent.
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
5:51 p.m.
In message <20100115164601.GC5791(a)digital-scurf.org>
Daniel Silverstone <dsilvers(a)netsurf-browser.org> wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 04:29:28PM +0000, David Pitt wrote:
> Maybe the missing ingredient in the RISC OS community is youth.
It's exceedingly hard to persuade youth to latch onto a community
which
currently lacks it.
That is true in general and not just the computer world. But it comes
back in spurts. Look at the Morris Dancing world.
Michael Bell
--
3935
days inactive
3938
days old
netsurf-users@netsurf-browser.org
17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Brian Jordan -
Bryan Hogan -
Daniel Silverstone -
David Pitt -
Dr Peter Young -
James K White -
Kevin Wells -
Michael Bell -
Michael Drake -
Rob Kendrick -
Steve Fryatt