7:29 a.m.
Big news...
Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
release of NetSurf is imminent.
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
for a couple of days or so now).
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
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8:20 a.m.
Dave Higton wrote
Big news...
Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
release of NetSurf is imminent.
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
for a couple of days or so now).
I am happy to download every day, or whenever a new version is
available.
Is there any information available about the current state of
javascript?
John
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
Infinity is Sad. God is infinite. God is very sad.
7:13 p.m.
On Sun, 24 Jan 2016 23:20:33 GMT John Rickman wrote:
Dave Higton wrote
> Big news...
> Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
> release of NetSurf is imminent.
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
> Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
> Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
> for a couple of days or so now).
I am happy to download every day, or whenever a new version is
available.
Is there any information available about the current state of
javascript?
That's impossible to answer in any way that is both simple and
meaningful.
The Javascript interpreter was replaced with a different one
a few months ago. The decision was taken not to make a new
stable release of NS until all the Javascript features of the
previous interpreter are present again. However, some other
JS features are also present.
The JS implementation is still far from complete, though. If
you need a RISC OS browser with complete (-ish) Javascript at
the moment, you'll have to use Otter or QupZilla, and put up
with the slower speeds.
To look at your question from a different angle: is there a
particular Javascript feature that you need?
Dave
____________________________________________________________
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5:08 a.m.
Dave Higton wrote
> I am happy to download every day, or whenever a new version is
> available.
> Is there any information available about the current state of
> javascript?
That's impossible to answer in any way that is both simple and
meaningful.
The Javascript interpreter was replaced with a different one
a few months ago. The decision was taken not to make a new
stable release of NS until all the Javascript features of the
previous interpreter are present again. However, some other
JS features are also present.
The JS implementation is still far from complete, though. If
you need a RISC OS browser with complete (-ish) Javascript at
the moment, you'll have to use Otter or QupZilla, and put up
with the slower speeds.
To look at your question from a different angle: is there a
particular Javascript feature that you need?
Hello Dave, thanks for the information. It is sufficient for my
purpose. When the JS interepreter was changed all of my JS example
code stopped working. I believed, mistakenly it turns out, that the JS
support in NetSurf was a sort of place holder. I have been waiting for
some sort of announcment that it had been re-implemented.
I have now looked more closely at my code and believe I have found the
problem.
This link which contains various javascript examples used to work in
NetSurf and now does not. The fact that it works on other browsers
led me to believe that NetSurf was at fault:-
http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/testing/test5.html
I have now traced the problem to an error in my code. I need to fix
the problem and try again.
John
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
it transcends plausibility, it's a fact. david mercer
5:43 a.m.
John Rickman Iyonix wrote
I have now traced the problem to an error in my code. I need to fix
the problem and try again.
My javascript is now working. the problem was that the new interpreter
does not like html comments between the <script> and </script> tags.
<!DOCTYPE HTML>
<html><head>
<title>Bakehouse-Cyber</title></head><body>
<script>
<!-- here is some javascript -->
document.write("hello world");
</script>
</body> </html>
As far as I know javascript should ignore html comments and the
javascript validator does not flag them as errors
http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php
John
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
6:16 a.m.
In message <57e4a64755.iyojohn(a)rickman.argonet.co.uk>
John Rickman Iyonix <rickman(a)argonet.co.uk> wrote:
John Rickman Iyonix wrote
> http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/testing/test5.html
> I have now traced the problem to an error in my code. I need to fix
> the problem and try again.
My javascript is now working. the problem was that the new interpreter
does not like html comments between the <script> and </script> tags.
<!DOCTYPE HTML>
<html><head>
<title>Bakehouse-Cyber</title></head><body>
<script>
<!-- here is some javascript -->
document.write("hello world");
</script>
</body> </html>
As far as I know javascript should ignore html comments and the
javascript validator does not flag them as errors
http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php
My O'Reilly Javascript book tells me that Javascript supports C-
style and C++-style comments. The only mention of HTML-style
comments relates to really, really, old browsers.
I think your code above is genuinely wrong, although I guess
it might be supported by some browsers that are deliberately
written to be tolerant of errors.
I'd recommens that you change your comment line to:
// here is some javascript
Dave
____________________________________________________________
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Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
7:53 a.m.
In message <57e4a64755.iyojohn(a)rickman.argonet.co.uk>
John Rickman Iyonix <rickman(a)argonet.co.uk> wrote:
As far as I know javascript should ignore html comments and the
javascript validator does not flag them as errors
http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php
My reference suggests that an HTML comment is /not/ a legal Javascript
comment. Perhaps you should open a discussion with the author of the
above application. I would, of course, be very interested to know the
conclusion!
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE 3D EARTH SCREENSAVER - Watch the Earth right on your desktop!
Check it out at http://www.inbox.com/earth
8:58 a.m.
Dave Higton wrote
In message <57e4a64755.iyojohn(a)rickman.argonet.co.uk>
John Rickman Iyonix <rickman(a)argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>As far as I know javascript should ignore html comments and the
>javascript validator does not flag them as errors
>
> http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php
My reference suggests that an HTML comment is /not/ a legal
Javascript
comment. Perhaps you should open a discussion with the author of the
above application. I would, of course, be very interested to know the
conclusion!
It doesn't really matter now as I have changed all the comments to
"proper" JavaScript style. I don't remember where I got the idea that
html style was acceptable in JS, but the article in this link says
they are ok:-
http://www.javascripter.net/faq/comments.htm
I will investigate further.
John
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
9:56 a.m.
On 26 January 2016 23:58:51 GMT+00:00, John Rickman Iyonix <rickman(a)argonet.co.uk>
wrote:
Dave Higton wrote
> In message <57e4a64755.iyojohn(a)rickman.argonet.co.uk>
> John Rickman Iyonix <rickman(a)argonet.co.uk> wrote:
>>As far as I know javascript should ignore html comments and the
>>javascript validator does not flag them as errors
>>
>> http://www.javascriptlint.com/online_lint.php
> My reference suggests that an HTML comment is /not/ a legal
Javascript
> comment. Perhaps you should open a discussion with the author of the
> above application. I would, of course, be very interested to know
the
> conclusion!
It doesn't really matter now as I have changed all the comments to
"proper" JavaScript style. I don't remember where I got the idea that
html style was acceptable in JS, but the article in this link says
they are ok:-
http://www.javascripter.net/faq/comments.htm
I will investigate further.
They must be OK to some extent, because the old advice was to encapsulate everything
within <script> tags within an HTML comment to stop the script being displayed on
screen.
I don't know if that practice is still common, but NetSurf should probably support it
if it doesn't already. (<style> tags have the same advice btw)
Chris
7:33 p.m.
Dave Higton wrote
My reference suggests that an HTML comment is /not/ a legal Javascript
comment. Perhaps you should open a discussion with the author of the
above application. I would, of course, be very interested to know the
conclusion!
Dave - below is an extract from the
"Ecma Standard definition of the ECMAScript 2015 Language",
Assuming that that JavaScript is entirely defined by the ECMAScript
standard, it seems clear that html style comments are valid.
*****************************************************************
"Annex B (normative) Additional ECMAScript Features for Web Browsers"
...
B.1.3 HTML-like Comments
The syntax and semantics of 11.4 is extended as follows except that
this extension is not when parsing source
code using the goal symbol Module:
Syntax
Comment ::
MultiLineComment
SingleLineComment
SingleLineHTMLOpenComment
SingleLineHTMLCloseComment
SingleLineDelimitedComment
MultiLineComment ::
/* FirstCommentLineopt LineTerminator MultiLineCommentCharsopt
*/ HTMLCloseCommentopt
FirstCommentLine ::
SingleLineDelimitedCommentChars
SingleLineHTMLOpenComment ::
<!-- SingleLineCommentCharsopt
SingleLineHTMLCloseComment ::
LineTerminatorSequence HTMLCloseComment
SingleLineDelimitedComment ::
/* SingleLineDelimitedCommentCharsopt */
HTMLCloseComment ::
WhiteSpaceSequenceopt SingleLineDelimitedCommentSequenceopt -->
SingleLineCommentCharsopt
SingleLineDelimitedCommentChars ::
SingleLineNotAsteriskChar SingleLineDelimitedCommentCharsopt
* SingleLinePostAsteriskCommentCharsopt
SingleLineNotAsteriskChar ::
SourceCharacter but not one of * or LineTerminator
SingleLinePostAsteriskCommentChars ::
SingleLineNotForwardSlashOrAsteriskChar
SingleLineDelimitedCommentCharsopt
* SingleLinePostAsteriskCommentCharsopt
SingleLineNotForwardSlashOrAsteriskChar ::
SourceCharacter but not one of / or * or LineTerminator
WhiteSpaceSequence ::
WhiteSpace WhiteSpaceSequenceopt
SingleLineDelimitedCommentSequence ::
SingleLineDelimitedComment WhiteSpaceSequenceopt
SingleLineDelimitedCommentSequenceopt
Copyright Ecma International 2015
page 523
*****************************************************************
--
11:50 p.m.
On 27/01/16 10:33, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
Assuming that that JavaScript is entirely defined by the ECMAScript
standard, it seems clear that html style comments are valid.
Thanks John. This has been reported upstream to the maintainer of
Duktape (the JavaScript engine we use).
You can follow the issue here:
https://github.com/svaarala/duktape/pull/564
Cheers,
--
Michael Drake http://www.codethink.co.uk/
7:39 p.m.
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 20:43:19 +0000, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
My javascript is now working. the problem was that the new
interpreter
does not like html comments between the <script> and </script> tags.
Have you reported this, along with an *attached* test case, to the BTS?
If so, can you let me know the issue number?
D.
--
Daniel Silverstone http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
PGP mail accepted and encouraged. Key Id: 3CCE BABE 206C 3B69
3:05 a.m.
Daniel Silverstone wrote
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 20:43:19 +0000, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
> My javascript is now working. the problem was that the new interpreter
> does not like html comments between the <script> and </script> tags.
Have you reported this, along with an *attached* test case, to the
BTS?
If so, can you let me know the issue number?
Hello Daniel,
Michael Drake has reported it upstream to Duktape
https://github.com/svaarala/duktape/pull/564
John
--
John Rickman - http://rickman.orpheusweb.co.uk/lynx
No s� nada, y no estoy seguro de �so
3:58 a.m.
On 27/01/16 18:05, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
Daniel Silverstone wrote
> Have you reported this, along with an *attached* test case, to
the BTS?
> If so, can you let me know the issue number?
Michael Drake has reported it upstream to Duktape
That doesn't change the need for a report in the NetSurf bug tracker.
The upstream may decide that the fix doesn't belong in duktape, or
they could implement it, but that would fix nothing for NetSurf
users unless we update duktape in the NetSurf source.
We have an issue tracker to keep track of all the things we need to
do. It's impossible to remember everything.
I've created an issue here:
http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=2416
I'd be grateful if someone could attach a test case.
Cheers,
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
4:21 a.m.
Michael Drake, on 27 Jan, wrote:
On 27/01/16 18:05, John Rickman Iyonix wrote:
> Daniel Silverstone wrote
> > Have you reported this, along with an *attached* test case, to the
> > BTS? If so, can you let me know the issue number?
> Michael Drake has reported it upstream to Duktape
That doesn't change the need for a report in the NetSurf bug tracker. The
upstream may decide that the fix doesn't belong in duktape, or they could
implement it, but that would fix nothing for NetSurf users unless we
update duktape in the NetSurf source.
We have an issue tracker to keep track of all the things we need to do.
It's impossible to remember everything.
I've created an issue here:
http://bugs.netsurf-browser.org/mantis/view.php?id=2416
I'd be grateful if someone could attach a test case.
Done.
--
David Pitt
3:19 p.m.
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
Big news...
Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
release of NetSurf is imminent.
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
for a couple of days or so now).
Dave
Fetching websites seems to storm along at a rate of knots. Has something
been done to NetSurf to enable this?
6:43 a.m.
In message <554757c729bbailey(a)argonet.co.uk>
Brian <bbailey(a)argonet.co.uk> wrote:
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> Big news...
> Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
> release of NetSurf is imminent.
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
> Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
> Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
> for a couple of days or so now).
> Dave
Fetching websites seems to storm along at a rate of knots. Has something
been done to NetSurf to enable this?
It has been suggested that the Unixlib fixes may be responsible.
If you go back far enough (before 2015 early November), the
regular expression parser was sometimes responsible for an
unbelievably high proportion of page load times. (At the
developer weekend last autumn, I saw an example where it took
90% of the CPU time.)
One other thing: the CI builds are coming out with logging
enabled. This will be changed for the release version. So,
if you want NS to go even faster, turn logging off (you'll
see the setting near the top of the !Run file). Of course:
1) you'll have to turn it back on again to get a log to report
a bug;
2) you'll want to turn it off again for each new CI version
you install.
It's a bit of an extreme example, but a Javascript test I
ran last night took over 6 minutes with logging enabled (it
created a 25 MB file) but 20 seconds with logging disabled.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
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8:10 a.m.
On 25/01/16 21:43, Dave Higton wrote:
One other thing: the CI builds are coming out with logging
enabled. This will be changed for the release version.
All RISC OS releases and CI builds have had logging enabled.
I would not suggest turning it off. If something does
go wrong there would be nothing to help us fix the problem
In the very rare cases when we've logged so much that it
makes a significant impact on performance it's because we're
aware something is buggy and want to gather the info needed
to help fix it.
The reason I suggested turning logging off to you last night
was to determine what the problem was without needing to
rebuild anything.
Since then, I've disabled the excessive JavaScript debug
output, so there should be no reason for users to do
anything unusual with the !Run file.
Cheers,
--
Michael Drake http://www.netsurf-browser.org/
4:58 a.m.
In a mad moment - Dave ec 20) mumbled :
Big news...
Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
release of NetSurf is imminent.
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Thanks for the update.
Using builds 3308 everything seems OK with and without JSript.
This is both on RiscPC, RO 4.02 and RaPi (B) RO 5.23 (Dec 20)
There is NO Pain!
One anomaly has shown up. On the RiscPC, the AMAZON Log In page is
fine, but on the RaPi the first box 'mobile or email' is limited
to showing only the last 5 characters I enter, making it difficult
to spot typos. Again this is the same for both JS on and off.
--
|) [
|)ryn [vans mail to - BrynEvans(a)bryork.freeuk.com
7:49 a.m.
In message <ns75cba24755.Bryn(a)yo.rk>
Bryn Evans <netsurf(a)bryork.freeuk.com> wrote:
In a mad moment - Dave ec 20) mumbled :
> Big news...
> Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
> release of NetSurf is imminent.
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Thanks for the update.
Using builds 3308 everything seems OK with and without JSript.
This is both on RiscPC, RO 4.02 and RaPi (B) RO 5.23 (Dec 20)
There is NO Pain!
One anomaly has shown up. On the RiscPC, the AMAZON Log In page is
fine, but on the RaPi the first box 'mobile or email' is limited
to showing only the last 5 characters I enter, making it difficult
to spot typos. Again this is the same for both JS on and off.
Please raise an issue on Mantis.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
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5:49 p.m.
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
A site I use a lot is
http://cpc.farnell.com/
Although it displays quite nicely, the "search" box, which should be within
the broad blue banner at the top, to the right of "All products", isn't
visible - is this fixable?
#3312
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
7:59 a.m.
In message <5547e95991Stuartlists(a)orpheusinternet.co.uk>
lists <Stuartlists(a)orpheusinternet.co.uk> wrote:
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
A site I use a lot is
http://cpc.farnell.com/
Although it displays quite nicely, the "search" box, which should be within
the broad blue banner at the top, to the right of "All products", isn't
visible - is this fixable?
#3312
Please raise an issue on Mantis.
NetSurf has an unsatisfactory layout engine. It needs replacing.
This is clearly a big job. However, please don't let that deter
you from raising the issue - it's not clear to me whether particular
issues, like the one you point out, can be fixed independently
of the major rework.
Dave
____________________________________________________________
FREE ONLINE PHOTOSHARING - Share your photos online with your friends and family!
Visit http://www.inbox.com/photosharing to find out more!
8:32 a.m.
In article <cc37374855.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
Please raise an issue on Mantis.
At around 10 this morning, I went to the bug-tracker site and went through
the process of creating a login - user name, email, catchpa - all went ok
but I'm still waiting for the confirmation email to complete the process!
--
Stuart Winsor
Tools With A Mission
sending tools across the world
http://www.twam.co.uk/
9:36 a.m.
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
Big news...
Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
release of NetSurf is imminent.
Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
Please also note that, since it's now close to release time, the
Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
for a couple of days or so now).
Greetings from sunny Australia (gloat, gloat),
The 38 Degrees petition page at....
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/Scotland-stop-CETA
Is a bit of a pigs dinner. It takes ages to load, frames overlap & the
signing link doesn't work.
Dev CI #3315 on Virtual Acorn Adjust 4.39
Same effects with JS on or off.
Works OK using Maxthon browser on the Windows side.
Does anyone see the same effects?
--
Chris
---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
2 p.m.
In article <5548c5c513cvjazz(a)waitrose.com>,
Chris Newman <cvjazz(a)waitrose.com> wrote:
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> Big news...
> Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a
new
> release of NetSurf is imminent.
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
> Please also note that, since it's now close to release time,
the
> Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
> for a couple of days or so now).
Greetings from sunny Australia (gloat, gloat),
The 38 Degrees petition page at....
Is a bit of a pigs dinner. It takes ages to load, frames overlap
& the
signing link doesn't work.
10.2 secs here and only one frame overlaps. Not really a pig's dinner, not
even a dog's breakfast, I would think!?! Don't know about the signing in
link, something happens but not sure if it does so correctly, or not.
#3315 on VRPC 4.02
Dev CI #3315 on Virtual Acorn Adjust 4.39
Same effects with JS on or off.
Works OK using Maxthon browser on the Windows side.
Does anyone see the same effects?
8:07 p.m.
In message <5548c5c513cvjazz(a)waitrose.com>
Chris Newman <cvjazz(a)waitrose.com> wrote:
In article <3bc72c4755.DaveMeUK(a)my.inbox.com>,
Dave Higton <dave(a)davehigton.me.uk> wrote:
> Big news...
> Current test (CI) builds are now release candidates. Yes, a new
> release of NetSurf is imminent.
> Please, everybody, download the latest test build (which will,
> of course, change as bugs are found and fixed), give it a good
> thrashing, and get your bug reports in.
> Please also note that, since it's now close to release time,
the
> Javascript setting in Choices->Content is obeyed (and has been
> for a couple of days or so now).
Greetings from sunny Australia (gloat, gloat),
The 38 Degrees petition page at....
Is a bit of a pigs dinner. It takes ages to load, frames overlap
& the
signing link doesn't work.
Dev CI #3315 on Virtual Acorn Adjust 4.39
Same effects with JS on or off.
Works OK using Maxthon browser on the Windows side.
Does anyone see the same effects?
2.6s JS off, 5.4s JS on, CI #3312, 5.21 (RC14), Pi 2 @ 900MHz. Page
display is substantially different compared to Otter 0.9.09 on RISC
OS. The signing link doesn't work in Netsurf with JS on or off, but
Otter seems fully functional with JS enabled. I didn't make a precise
count of page loading time in Otter - it's considerably slower than
NS, about 20-30 secs JS off/on.
--
George
2806
days inactive
2810
days old
netsurf-users@netsurf-browser.org
25 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Brian -
Bryn Evans -
Chris Newman -
Chris Young -
Daniel Silverstone -
Dave Higton -
David Pitt -
george greenfield -
John Rickman Iyonix -
lists -
Michael Drake -
Michael Drake